Pastor Randy McCain, more than any other person I know, has committed himself to making a difference in the church, especially when it comes to bringing together gays and nongays in worship. Randy is founding pastor of Open Door Community Church in Sherwood, Arkansas, the first Open Door congregation. He and his spouse of 12 years, Gary, began Open Door by starting a bible study in their home. This would turn into a church, which would meet in their living room for five years. Today, Open Door in Sherwood owns their own property and is a successful, growing and integrated congregation. This interview was conducted in Oct. 2004. ~ David Plunkett.

When you began Open Door Community Church (of Sherwood) back in 1996, did you envision that you may be starting a movement across the country?

No, I honestly did not get a vision from heaven; I did not get a five-year plan or anything concrete like that. We just needed a place to worship and several others did too. I had been fired from my position when I came out to the elders at a Cumberland Presbyterian Church where I served as music minister and assistant to the pastor.

After that experience, I was wounded and felt that perhaps my ministry days were over. But a dear friend, Peggy Campolo, said to me, "Randy, if there is no church for you and Gary, I am sure there are many who have no church to go to. I feel you have the ministry gifts and should start a new church where all of God’s kids are welcome." So that was the motivation for beginning Open Door.

The only words I sensed coming from heaven was God saying, "Do not limit me." The main vision of ministry that I began to see was that God wanted us to begin a work that was not considered a "gay church," but a church that would bring gays and non-gays together in worship. We are seeing that happen and we also have seen other people in other areas of the nation longing for that kind of ministry.

What direction has Open Door Community Churches taken since their beginning in 1996?

Well, we have seen a church begin in Denver (in February 2003), Open Door Community Church of Denver. They are about to celebrate their second anniversary and are doing well.

Also, there is an Open Door Community Church now in Chicago. We also have people visiting our web sites and writing to us saying, "We need this kind of ministry in our city."

Open Door Community Churches have been quoted by at least one media source as "heavy on grace." Why do you think the grace message is so important for Christians to embrace?

Because Jesus said he came to set us free. Paul says that through Christ we have been made free and should not be entangled by the harsh demands of the Law. Too many Christians are sin-conscious instead of Christ-conscious.

Paul tells us in Galatians that we should not allow anyone to put a harness of slavery on us ever again. A friend of mine says it is amazing how many people would rather worship at the foot of Mount Sinai where Moses received the Law instead of the foot of Mount Calvary where Jesus set us free from the heaviness and impossible requirements of the Law. Those who today still hold to a legalistic approach to salvation and God's love are mean-spirited and exclusive. Their love is conditional and so is their acceptance.

Do you think it’s important for non-gay Christians to embrace grace, too?

Of course! Living becomes so much easier and less complicated when people understand the freedom they have in Christ! We can love people more freely when we know we are loved by God regardless of our performance. God spoke through the prophet Isaiah and said that there is a special blessing for those who put away the pointing of fingers and embrace the outcast. (Isaiah 58).

I feel that the evangelical Christian world needs a baptism in grace. Many outside the evangelical church world see the church as a hate group and yet Jesus said they would know we were his followers by our love. Something has gone terribly wrong. Grace gets us re-established to the message of God's unconditional love!

How has your concept of God changed over the years? What factor(s) affected your concepts of God?

I used to say that I loved Jesus, but I was afraid of His Father. This was because that I had been taught that God hates sin and because He hates sin, He hates me when I sin. This is what the church told me. I was told that God cannot look upon sin, so when I sin He cannot look at me and He rejects me. I was headed for a sinner's hell.

But Jesus says to God the Father, "No, wait, don't punish him. I love him." But God answered, "But he is sinful and vile. Get out of my way and let me make crispy critters out of him and all those other worthless sinners." Then Jesus says, "Wait, I love them and I will take their punishment." So God says reluctantly, "Well, OK, but you better get ready 'cause I have a lot of wrath saved up." So Jesus hung on the cross for our sins and when he went back to heaven God said to him, "OK. You took their punishment, so because they are your friends I will accept them."

I have since that time come to realize that God has always loved us. God didn't need to be reconciled to us, we needed to be reconciled to God. We needed to know how much He loves us and that was the whole purpose of Jesus' birth, life, death and resurrection. Jesus was God in the flesh showing us that we had it all wrong about God. God is love, plain and simple.

Do you see these changes as understanding grace better?

Absolutely!

What factors do you think constitute a grace church? Or can it be defined by outward terms?

Well, I cannot give you an exhaustive answer to that question, but I can give you certain characteristics of a grace church as opposed to a legalistic church.

When you attend a grace church you should feel warmly welcomed. You should be able to take your mask off without feeling you will be judged. In a grace church, you should hear sermons that inspire as opposed to condemn. The sermon should encourage you toward excellence without paralyzing you with fear of failure. The sermon should help you learn to walk but not cause you hurtful pain for the times you have fallen while trying to walk.

In a grace church people should not be thrown away when they make mistakes but loved and restored. In a grace church there should be an atmosphere of celebration, not of heaviness and sadness. A grace church should be a place where people are comforted when they have been wounded, but not encouraged to remain in their woundedness. They should receive healing and get on with their lives in a positive manner. Healing should be an outgrowth from an atmosphere of unconditional love.

Do you define the grace message as more "liberal" or "conservative"?

Grace really transcends both and in some ways is neither, if you go by modern definitions. In Isaiah 32, we see the wicked shall not be called liberal but that the righteous shall be called liberal. A liberal person is said to be generous. I do not understand what has happened to the word liberal. I hear the term compassionate conservatism and I think to myself, "isn't that an oxymoron?" To be liberal means to be open-hearted, giving, and free with your love. Since when did we feel that it was necessary to be conservative with those commodities?

James tells us that God gives liberally to all people without finding fault James 1:5). So I believe as followers of Christ and recipients of His grace, we should be free with our giving. "Freely you have received, freely give." (Matthew 10:8)

Do you see a change in the church today compared to 10 years ago?

I am troubled, as I said earlier, with the way the evangelical church's message has become more and more judgmental. Jesus came to proclaim good news and the acceptable year of the Lord's favor. I see the church isolating themselves more and more from the mainstream of life, to the point that the evangelical church is becoming irrelevant.

Jesus went to the people outside the synagogues. The unchurched were not put off by his presence. They loved to invite him to parties. If Jesus had been the Moral Majority, politically-minded preacher like the televangelists we see today, he would not have been welcomed by the lost. When Jesus showed them love and not rejection, they felt they had value. The church today seems to value theology and to devalue people. Jesus was just the opposite. He was always breaking the sanctimonious customs of the pious to connect with the ones who were hungry for love. I hope that Open Door Community Churches can hold a mirror up to the evangelical church world and let them see how distorted their faces have become by anger and a judgmental spirit.

What do you project for the church in the next 10 years?

I pray for a revival of love and a desire to be more like Jesus.

Open Door has spent a lot of time talking about bringing GLBT and non-gay people together into the church. What are the benefits of this happening, and do you think that Little Rock, Denver or Chicago are places where a mixed congregation can thrive? What lessons do you think we can learn from such integration?

I feel strongly that God does not want segregated churches. I think that subcultures can be a place of refuge, but at some point it becomes unhealthy. I understand that in the past there was a great need for churches that catered to gays and lesbians predominately. But I believe that we have reached a point in this struggle for equality that staying separate does not create an atmosphere of equality. We all need each other. I would not want to attend a church that billed itself as a white church or a black church, and I do not want to attend an exclusive church that bills itself as a gay church. I always correct people that refer to our churches in those terms. I tell them, "we are not a 'gay' church, we are a 'grace' church."

Someone asked me if our church had an outreach to the gay community. I told them, "Well, gays and lesbians are the majority group in our church so we have an outreach to the non-gay community." They need us and we need them.

I feel that rejection is an outgrowth of a conservative approach to God. Therefore, those who are non-gay and worship in a church where their gay and lesbian and bisexual transgendered neighbors are shut out, need healing from the effects of a distorted view of God's love. The GLBT community needs healing from the pain they have received as a result of homophobic churches and families. When all of us approach the table of the Lord together we receive healings together.

One father of a gay son who attended an Open Door service in Sherwood said with tears streaming down his cheeks, "There is so much love in this place." He didn't know where he stood theologically on the gay issue, but he knew there was something so right about the love and the presence of the Lord he experienced in a church where all are truly welcomed.

Who are your favorite authors?

C.S. Lewis and Brennan Manning

Favorite books?

Abba's Child, by Brennan Manning, and Mere Christianity, by C.S. Lewis

Do you have a favorite scripture?

For by grace are you saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves: It is the gift of God; not of works, lest any one should boast. (Ephesians 2:9-10.)

I also love the Message Bible's translation of Jesus' words in Matthew 11:28-30. Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you’ll recover your life. I’ll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me -- watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t put anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you’ll learn to live freely and lightly.

Favorite song?

The hymn, It Is Well With My Soul

Favorite actor or actress?

A tie between Glenn Close and Meryl Streep. If you were talking about actresses of the past it would be Bette Davis.

Favorite passion in life?

Telling people that God is love and that He loves them unconditionally!

Most loved people?

Well, that is a hard one. I love my spouse of 12 years, Gary Eddy. He has been there for me so many times over our 30-year friendship. He works beside me in this ministry of grace and makes life and ministry fun. He brings sanity to my daily life. I cannot imagine life without him.

I love my family and my extended family.